Tweak

InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Baby Got Back!"

Username: 
Password:    
Remember Me
  • Create Account
  • IJ Login
  • OpenID Login
Search by : 
  • View
    • Create Account
    • IJ Login
    • OpenID Login
  • Journal
    • Post
    • Edit Entries
    • Customize Journal
    • Comment Settings
    • Recent Comments
    • Manage Tags
  • Account
    • Manage Account
    • Viewing Options
    • Manage Profile
    • Manage Notifications
    • Manage Pictures
    • Manage Schools
    • Account Status
  • Friends
    • Edit Friends
    • Edit Custom Groups
    • Friends Filter
    • Nudge Friends
    • Invite
    • Create RSS Feed
  • Asylums
    • Post
    • Asylum Invitations
    • Manage Asylums
    • Create Asylum
  • Site
    • Support
    • Upgrade Account
    • FAQs
    • Search By Location
    • Search By Interest
    • Search Randomly

regan_v ([info]regan_v) wrote,
@ 2008-09-27 23:48:00

Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:meta, ss/hp

On the attractions of cross-gen, with particular reference to Snape/Harry
No, no. Your children are safe with us. Really.

This is for [info]meri_oddities, whose birthday has arrived. I felt that the topic was appropriate, for a meta written for her, since her stories were chief among the crack that pulled me into this pairing. Happy Birthday, dear. I hope you enjoy this.



One of my advisees came to my office hours for advice on next year’s schedule. Once we’d settled the schedule, the conversation drifted a bit. We talked about her family and she mentioned that she’d become quite interested in HP fanfiction, and I made encouraging noises. From what I gathered, she is strictly a lurker. Emboldened, she shyly admitted that she particularly liked stories about Snape and Lupin.

Heh. A Snupin shipper. Right there in my own classes. I smiled warmly, and murmured something about feeling that Snape was so often misunderstood by many readers. Yeah.

“Really, I like a lot of Snape stories,” she expanded. “I just like reading about him in all sorts of stories,” she concluded. “Except, you know . . . with Harry. That’s just yucky. I just don’t get why so many people like that.”

I’ve kept a straight face under much worse provocation, so it was no challenge to shake my head sadly, and say something about how there was just so much porn on the Internet, etc. I did add that I knew a few other fans who liked Snape/Lupin, and what a lovely bunch of women they were, too.

After I closed the door behind her, I smiled. But she did make me wonder, again, about the attractions of cross-gen. Because I know that her response is the more common reaction to Snape/Harry.

I’m not sure I get it, and I’ve never really talked about it with my fellow Snarristas. Indeed, the dearth of conversation about this at my end of fandom is interesting in itself. I mean: discussion of the cross-gen aspects of Snape/Harry, which are almost always intrinsic to the story and their relationship.

Tell me again: why doesn’t it bother me a bit that my OTP is cross-gen? Because the pairing is hot, and that’s all I cared about when I first started shipping it? Maybe.

In the gateway drug stories that hooked me hard, like [info]meri_oddities’ Sanguis Vinculum and Mairead Triste’s and Aristide’s A Choriambic Progression, this pairing is simply . . . well, meltingly hot. The sexual tension that any good set of characterizations between these two can generate was a gut punch, pure and simple. And I have always valued desire, particularly when it’s that strong. I dove head first into this pairing, and never looked back.

Odd. You’d think that the cross-gen would have given me pause, because my previous hard-core OTP had been Kirk/Spock. And it’s not like I’d ever look twice at someone that much younger in real life.

In real life? The only younger person who’d pose a serious temptation would be Rachel Maddow. She’s smart, tough, dynamic, and sophisticated enough to make me look twice (although I’d still keep my hands in my pockets). But she’s really only young enough to be my (much) younger sister, and not my daughter. And I guess the definition of cross-gen is that one character is old enough to be the other’s mother or father, no?

Snape, however, is definitely old enough to be Harry’s father. Indeed, if things had broken somewhat differently with Lily back when he was a teenager, Snape would have been Harry’s father. And he loved Harry’s mother. This information, which we only got in the last book, can lend an odd AU incestuous touch to the pairing, in some stories that have appeared since Deathly Hallows.

Yes, I guess there’s no getting around it: Snarry is serious cross-gen.

Sometimes the story turns on that, and sometimes it doesn’t. Less and less, now that Book 7 is out and Harry’s all grown up, in our heads.

But in the beginning, a huge part of almost every Snarry plot was the substantial age difference. A 20 year age gap looms larger when one party is 15 than it will later on. Layered on top of that was the conflict of interest because Snape was Harry’s teacher. In any remotely realistic approach, that had to be important, because Snape’s job (and possibly his life, if he needed the Hogwarts position to appease Voldemort) would be on the line if he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Many of the early classic Snarry stories put that problem---the threat of what might happen to Snape if he was caught sleeping with a student---at the center of the story’s tension, and drama. Such stories were more about a conflict of interest than they were about an age gap: the relationships in Telanu’s Tea Series, Cybele’s If You Are Prepared, or Aucta Sinistra’s Scratch were all shaped by Snape’s realization that he had a lot at stake, professionally, if he gave into temptation. And since canon Snape is usually cautious, shrewd, and wary, the story often got past the difficulty of making such reckless behavior IC by having Harry make all or most of the advances. In Harry, recklessness is always plausible.

So, one way to resolve some of the conflicts of interest and other obstacles to a cross-gen relationship (in terms of keeping it plausible) is to have the younger character make all the moves. In this, I see the difference between reality and fantasy: older people are rarely so easily manipulated or outmaneuvered by the young, as often happened in early Snarries. Certainly not Snape, who is so aware of how to manipulate others. This was one reason I loved Sanguis Vinculum: Snape is very aware of the conflict of interest and is determined not to go there; and he’s not so easily manipulated, either.

But another category of early Snarry said, in effect: conflict of interest be damned. The whole charge of the story lay in the thrill that came from their relationship being wrong, wrong, wrong. Snape isn’t struggling against temptation in such stories, or (more pragmatically) being careful because he doesn’t want to lose his job. On the contrary, he enjoys the transgressive aspects of it all, ruthlessly exploiting the advantages that age and experience give him. And in this sort of Snarry, Harry can be a more innocent “victim,” seduced or exploited with only dubious consent. Thamiris’ Dragon-Blind is a classic in this category, as is Hijja’s But Not Forgotten. Amy’s Intricacies of Expectation features a Snape who also clearly enjoys being in control of a dubious situation, although in this story Harry has finished Hogwarts and so the conflict of interest is dissolved.

These sorts of Snape/Harry stories used to be more common than they are now. The older Harry got, in canon, the easier it became to imagine him as an adult, and to project forward to an adult relationship where conflicts of interest, or Snape’s abuse of the trust placed in him, became moot.

Some authors got to this place very early, long before canon closed. Many of Minx’s stories---written before Book 5, I think---start with Harry as an adult, who meets Snape on fairly equal terms. One reason I liked Meri’s own work was that she also explored this sort of Snarry quite early on, for example in The Same Coin, with its carefully structured timeline, which resists any happy ending until they can meet each other in a place of equality.

When Harry is an adult . . . I’m not sure it’s accurate to call it “cross-gen” anymore. The sense of transgression, of danger, of struggling with temptation against something Snape knew was a poor idea, of unequal power relationships---all key components of cross-gen---slowly evaporate, the older Harry becomes. And when they meet as adults, it becomes an exploration of the clash of personalities and the working through of a complicated personal history. Miriam Heddy’s What Dire Offence is a strong example of this sort of Snarry, as is [info]pir8fancier’s Snape: the Home Fries Nazi. Most of the good Snape/Harry stories that aim at light humor or quirkiness fall into this category, too (since it’s hard to imagine light humor in tandem with transgression and danger): Scheming Reader’s Pornopticon, Jay Tryfanstone’s Fly Fishing for Beginners, and a number of stories by Beth H (who is the doyenne of deft and amusing Snarry).

Snape/Harry is such a rich pairing that it produces reams of great fiction even when you remove the automatic sources of dramatic tension (listed above) that a cross-gen pairing gives rise to. Even when they meet as adults, the chemistry can be explosive. And their edges can be so sharp, that it’s easy to make something droll out of that.

Snape always seemed to me to be a character who had escaped his author’s control: he clearly took up a much larger piece of the stage and of fen’s imagination than Rowling seems to have expected. Even when we weren’t given much to work with in terms of his personal history or what he does off-stage, out of Harry’s presence, Snape was always a vivid character. And Harry is of course the star of the show. Put them together, and add in the complicated personal histories, loyalties, and parallel experiences of these two “lost boys” of Hogwarts, and you can in fact dispense with drama generators such as conflict of interest, violation of trust, etc.

Snape/Harry doesn’t need that to work. Indeed, the staggeringly large body of good Snarry made it very hard to complete this piece: I kept scrolling through the lists of good stories at the [info]snarry_reader, trying and failing to include at least one good example from each sub-genre. The list of terrific links almost took over this meta, in other words.

Because with Snape/Harry, even after the first blush of youth is gone . . . it just gets better and better. Age cannot not wither, nor custom stale its infinite variety.

Which is how I know it’s true love.





hit counter



(Post a new comment)


[info]torino10154
2008-09-28 07:23 am UTC (link)
Lovely. Makes me want to re-read all my old favorites. I especially agree with you though that Sanpe took on a life of his own, really got away from the author and couple that with the 'hero' you have two incredibly powerful, passionate men destined to be intertwined.

I actually had posted a question to my flist about cross-gen and the appeal (or not) of it. It was really interesting to see why people didn't like it, as for me it's sort of unfathomable that a person wouldn't.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]regan_v
2008-09-28 07:37 am UTC (link)
Thank you; I'm glad you enjoyed this. And thanks for linking me to the discussion on your own journal. You got a very rich and interesting set of exchanges there. That doesn't surprise me, because your question is a good one (and you obviously have a lovely flist). Given that there is a lot to say about cross-gen, I wonder why it's so seldom discussed at the Snarry end of fandom?

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]torino10154
2008-09-28 08:14 am UTC (link)
Given that there is a lot to say about cross-gen, I wonder why it's so seldom discussed at the Snarry end of fandom?

I think it's taken as a given that if you like Snarry, you like cross-gen. And I'm sure there are Snarry fen that prefer them to be two adults, for many of us the appeal is based on the cross-gen aspect-personally, I like them any way I can get them. ;) I remember talking to someone about fanfiction and they had never even imagined a post-Hogwarts relationship and assumed the pairing had to be chan by definition. Another thing [info]auctasinistra mentioned was correlating it to real life, when that student/teacher, older man/younger woman power play situation might be more problematic than we imagine in fic. For someone that really identifies with that, maybe they have difficulty getting past that.

Being in a nearly cross-gen relationship myself (my husband is closer in age to my parents than to me, but only just), I will say that after 20 years it's not as big a deal as it once was but there are still times that it's quite apparent that we grew up in a different place and time. So I think it's fair to call any relationship between Harry and Severus cross-gen.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]firefly124
2008-09-28 09:41 am UTC (link)
This was an interesting read for me. As I said to [info]torino10154 in her LJ, I tend to see myself as someone who likes several cross-gen pairings in spite of their cross-gen-ness rather than because of it. I imagine part of it is because I came late to the party and started with post-war Snarry fics such as A Nick in Time, which actually leveled the field a bit further between them by sending them both back to age 8 or so.

Oddly, I find I have a higher tolerance for 6th- and 7th-year fics with Snape/Hermione than with Snape/Harry. Part of that is probably due to the volume I've read of each, that is, far more Hermione than Harry.

(Reply to this)


[info]effie_chan
2008-09-28 05:37 pm UTC (link)
I'm also one of those in the fandom who like Snape/Harry mainly because of the cross-gen aspect of the pairing. I suppose that is one of the reasons why I have never been taken with Harry/Draco or Snape/Remus or such.

Especially after book six you had all this tension between Harry and Snape. They were so focused on each other and there were so many things to resolve... in a way that made me dread the release of book seven, because I didn't want that tension to be resolved in the books.
I guess in a way I got my wish. While Harry knows after DH that Snape was on his side all along the fact that he never actually got to talk to Snape about it leaves a lot of room for people.

I also like the added aspect of Harry's mother in the whole dynamic. That gives it kind of a new twist that needs to be resolved.

Anyway, thanks for the post. It was a very enjoyable read.

(Reply to this)


[info]amanuensis1
2008-09-29 10:24 am UTC (link)
I never thought it was the cross-gen issue that turned people off! I thought it was the issue that Snape is nasty and ugly. For serious.

(Reply to this)



Home | Site Map | Manage Account | TOS | Privacy | Support | FAQs